Folks (and particularly Mike Albers), Very interesting! I really have no idea, being for the most part a Pathologist in Florida dealing primarily with pines. As a pathologist, a thought comes to mind, but you should try to verify even the possibility of this with someone who deals with oak wilt (caused by Ceratocystis fagacearum). You are (as I understand it) in an area where this disease occurs, and red oaks are susceptible hosts, often displaying vascular staining or streaking. Most of the time infected red oaks die, but I do know that if infections of some vascular wilts are not lethal, recovery can occur, sometimes "compartmentalizing" the pathogen in interior vascular tissues - together with its associated vascular staining. Any chance that these trees might be oak wilt survivors? This could possibly be evaluated in a laboratory. Ed ________________________________ From: rg70300-forent-bounces(a)lists.iufro.org [mailto:rg70300-forent-bounces@lists.iufro.org] On Behalf Of Mike Albers Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:44 AM To: rg70300-forent(a)lists.iufro.org Subject: [IUFRO RG 7.03 FORENT] Fwd: Dark rings in red oak logs Any idea what would cause dark rings in red oak logs as in the attached pictures? The dark rings run the length of the logs. So far this has been seen on a number of sites in 3 or 4 counties in Minnesota. Not all red oak trees on a site have the dark rings. My first guess is that it is a barrier zone resulting from a wound or injury of some type. However it seems strange that it forms a complete cylinder that reaches the ends of the logs. I didn't see any logs where the dark ring only went part way around a log. Also there were some logs that had obvious injuries with decay and discoloration but these logs did not form rings or even have distinct barrier zones going even part way around the log. I've only looked at logs like this while in the mill, not on the site where they were harvested. At first, the thought was that these rings were the result of something happening 16 to 17 years ago. This will take more investigation, but it looks to me like the time period varies anywhere from 6 to 35 years. Also at this time I can't say if the time period varies ibetween sites, or if the time period varies from log to log on the same site. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Mike Albers Forest Health Specialist MN DNR-Forestry 1201 E. Hwy. # 2 Grand Rapids, MN 55744 (218)-327-4115

Thanks Paul for the note to the forum. I'm replying to all with some trepidation, if we need to confer further on this, just email me. The apparent islands of enclosed phloem seen in transverse section can occur with injury from low-intensity fire as well as from other forms of mechanical injury. The trick is to kill enough of the vascular cambium locally while allowing enough living tissue to de-differentiate and to then reorganize to form a new vascular cambium to close the killed area and isolate the phloem that is now embedded. I can't say that it happens often, but sure, the bugs aren't the only source of wounds that produce that effect. Kevin. Kevin T. Smith, Ph.D. Plant Physiologist and Project Leader, Research Work Unit NRS-10 USDA Forest Service 271 Mast Road, Durham, NH 03824, USA Voice: 603.868.7624 Fax: 603.868.7604 Cell: 207.351.5671 Email: ktsmith(a)fs.fed.us Paul Zambino <pzambino(a)fs.fed.us> Sent by: rg70200-forpath-bounces(a)lists.iufro.org 11/24/2009 09:09 AM To <rg70300-forent(a)lists.iufro.org>rg>, <rg70200-forpath(a)lists.iufro.org>rg>, Mike.Albers(a)dnr.state.mn.us cc Subject Re: [IUFRO RG 7.02 FORPATH] [IUFRO RG 7.03 FORENT] Fwd: Dark rings in red oak logs PLUS other oak dendrochronology question: enclosed phloem Hi Mike, and others who have responded, Kevin Smith's review "An organismal view of dendrochronology" in Dendrochronologia mentions examples of white rings that develop in poplar and birch in response to insect defoliation or crown loss in winter storms. I am not sure what would cause dark rings in oak, but agree that it is something that is activating a compartmentalization response and/or creating a barrier zone. Because these occurrences are a complete, single growth ring that encompasses the whole tree, I suspect an environmental factor. Mike, you might check for a correlation between the year of the ring and winter injury, late or early frost, an extreme winter or summer temperature event, or maybe even flooding or insect defoliation. In response to Ed Barnard, I don't think these rings indicate oak wilt, as infections in white oaks that survive the first year generally show up as incomplete and spotty dark rings, with additional partial dark rings in the same affected areas the following year in surviving white oaks. Among oaks, red oaks die very quickly of oak wilt, so you wouldn't see this long term survival. On a different dendrochronology note: If anyone is familiar with "islands" of enclosed phloem in red or live oaks that apparently generate a new layer of xylem-generating cambium after cambium injury please let me know. I have found this response in several oak species after attack by the cambium-feeding gold-spotted oak borer (GSOB), Agrilus coxalis, which is now a problem pest in Southern California. I am developing methods of back-dating such enclosed phloem to reconstruct the history of the pest's residence and spread within and among stands, and determine onset of tree mortality after attacks. So I need to know other factors -- biotic or environmental -- that may generate similar new layers of xylem external to patches of enclosed phloem. I have enclosed pictures of the enclosed phloem and response wood that develops after GSOB attack if inner phloem has not been killed by very heavy attacks and/or pathogens associated with this decline. Thanks! Paul Zambino Paul Zambino, Ph.D. Plant Pathologist, Forest Health Protection Southern California Shared Service Area San Bernardino NF - SO 602 S. Tippecanoe San Bernardino, CA 92408-3430 Ph: (909)382-2727 FAX: (909)383-5586 Cell: (909)215-0394 Email: pzambino(a)fs.fed.us "Barnard, Ed" <barnare(a)doacs.state.fl.us> Sent by: rg70300-forent-bounces(a)lists.iufro.org 11/21/2009 11:09 AM Please respond to "IUFRO RG 7.03.00" <rg70300-forent(a)lists.iufro.org> To "IUFRO RG 7.03.00" <rg70300-forent(a)lists.iufro.org> cc Subject Re: [IUFRO RG 7.03 FORENT] Fwd: Dark rings in red oak logs Folks (and particularly Mike Albers), Very interesting! I really have no idea, being for the most part a Pathologist in Florida dealing primarily with pines. As a pathologist, a thought comes to mind, but you should try to verify even the possibility of this with someone who deals with oak wilt (caused by Ceratocystis fagacearum). You are (as I understand it) in an area where this disease occurs, and red oaks are susceptible hosts, often displaying vascular staining or streaking. Most of the time infected red oaks die, but I do know that if infections of some vascular wilts are not lethal, recovery can occur, sometimes ?compartmentalizing? the pathogen in interior vascular tissues ? together with its associated vascular staining. Any chance that these trees might be oak wilt survivors? This could possibly be evaluated in a laboratory. Ed From: rg70300-forent-bounces(a)lists.iufro.org [mailto:rg70300-forent-bounces@lists.iufro.org] On Behalf Of Mike Albers Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:44 AM To: rg70300-forent(a)lists.iufro.org Subject: [IUFRO RG 7.03 FORENT] Fwd: Dark rings in red oak logs Any idea what would cause dark rings in red oak logs as in the attached pictures? The dark rings run the length of the logs. So far this has been seen on a number of sites in 3 or 4 counties in Minnesota. Not all red oak trees on a site have the dark rings. My first guess is that it is a barrier zone resulting from a wound or injury of some type. However it seems strange that it forms a complete cylinder that reaches the ends of the logs. I didn't see any logs where the dark ring only went part way around a log. Also there were some logs that had obvious injuries with decay and discoloration but these logs did not form rings or even have distinct barrier zones going even part way around the log. I've only looked at logs like this while in the mill, not on the site where they were harvested. At first, the thought was that these rings were the result of something happening 16 to 17 years ago. This will take more investigation, but it looks to me like the time period varies anywhere from 6 to 35 years. Also at this time I can't say if the time period varies ibetween sites, or if the time period varies from log to log on the same site. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Mike Albers Forest Health Specialist MN DNR-Forestry 1201 E. Hwy. # 2 Grand Rapids, MN 55744 (218)-327-4115_______________________________________________ IUFRO Mailing List To post a message to all list members, send email to: rg70300-forent(a)lists.iufro.org List info and Archive: http://www.iufro.org/science/iufro-mailing-lists/overview/ [attachment "IMG_1261 Q Agrif GSOB attacks sm.JPG" deleted by Kevin Smith/NRS/USDAFS] [attachment "IMG_1291 Q Agrif Possible GSOB layers sm.JPG" deleted by Kevin Smith/NRS/USDAFS] [attachment "IMG_0386 Q agrif GSOB response crpsm.JPG" deleted by Kevin Smith/NRS/USDAFS] [attachment "IMG_0244crp1sm.JPG" deleted by Kevin Smith/NRS/USDAFS] _______________________________________________ IUFRO Mailing List To post a message to all list members, send email to: rg70200-forpath(a)lists.iufro.org List info and Archive: http://www.iufro.org/science/iufro-mailing-lists/overview/